Intervju s Akademskom solidarnosti

Nedavno je osnovan prvi direktnodemokratski sindikat u Hrvatskoj – Akademska solidarnost. Akademska solidarnost sindikat je radnika u visokom školstvu, te je direktno proizašao iz studentskih borbi, što potvrđuje i sama direktnodemokratska orijentacija. Donosimo vam intervju s članovima Akademske solidarnosti Dijanom Ćurković, asistenticom na Odjelu za dijalektologiju Instituta za hrvatski jezik i jezikoslovlje i Izvorom Rukavinom, znanstvenim novakom na Odsjeku za sociologiju Filozofskog fakulteta u Zagrebu. Od dana kada je intervju napravljen, pa do danas prošlo je neko vrijeme tako da se u međuvremenu dosta stvari dogodilo, a o tome možete pročitati na internetskoj stranici Akademske solidarnosti.

Za početak nam recite općenito što je to Akademska solidarnost i kako je osnovana?

DĆ: Radi se o inicijativi profesora koji su se okupili na Filozofskom fakultetu u Zagrebu, ali naravno ima i ljudi s drugih fakulteta i institucija. I sama sam jedna od tih ljudi. Okupili smo se prvenstveno zbog ta tri zakona (op. Zakon o sveučilištu, Zakon o znanstvenoj djelatnosti i Zakon o visokom obrazovanju), oni su bili okidač. Međutim, određena podrška profesora postojala je još za vrijeme studentskih blokada i ona je bila temelj iz kojega se kasnije razvila inicijativa Akademska solidarnost. Intenzivnije djelujemo od listopada prošle godine.

IR: Dobrim dijelom su upravo pojedinci koji su javno iskazivali podršku plenumu i čak sudjelovali u njegovu radu ti koji su pokrenuli Inicijativu. U organizaciji Udruženja studenata filozofije i Slobodnog Filozofskog održana je tribina pod nazivom „Odgovornost akademske zajednice: Novi zakoni o visokom obrazovanju - što se to mene tiče?“, na kojoj su govorili profesori Duda, Jovanović i Jurić. Oni su na toj tribini izložili trenutnu situaciju uz povlačenje paralela s procesima koji se događaju drugdje u svijetu te istaknuli da se tu radi o jednom općem trendu komercijalizacije. Nakon što su ukazali na pogubnost takvog trenda kao i na inertnost naše akademske zajednice, konstatirali su da su zapravo jedino studenti pokazali kako se protiv takvog protivnika može boriti, da se tu mora raditi o nekakvom obliku direktne akcije, te da su razni dopisi i moljakanja zapravo kontraproduktivni. Studenti iz publike su na izrečeno reagirali pozitivno, ali su profesorima dali do znanja da ne misle umjesto njih iznijeti ovu borbu, te da je vrijeme da i oni nešto poduzmu. Konkretno, ako već vide da direktna akcija funkcionira onda bi ju i oni trebali koristiti, a ne očekivati od studenata da to učine umjesto njih. U roku od nekoliko dana krenuli smo sa sastancima koji su od početka bili relativno masovni i redoviti. Zaista je iznenađujuće da je toliki broj ljudi ovako dugo uključen u sve to. Vrlo su radišni i pored svih obaveza koje imaju na poslu obavljaju najrazličitije zadatke potpuno samoinicijativno, jer i tako nema nikakvog nalogodavca koji bi rekao sad treba ovo, sad ono.

DĆ: Treba spomenuti i to da je plenum profesorima ustupio na korištenje prostoriju A001 u kojoj se svake srijede održavaju sastanci Inicijative, tako da, iako su studenti odbili biti predvodnici ove akcije, oni ipak blisko surađuju s profesorima, što je vidljivo i u novoosnovanom sindikatu u kojem svi radimo zajedno.

IR: Ne radi se o tome da studenti ne bi imali snage za ovu borbu, već nije na njima da zastupaju naše interese. Kada govorim mi i oni, pritom mislim samo na to da smo mi zaposleni a oni nisu. Na samim sastancima se ne prave nikakve razlike i stvarno s uvažavanjem slušamo jedni druge, ali je jasno da je fokus inicijative Akademska solidarnost na stvarima koje se primarno tiču zaposlenih. Međutim u akademskom svijetu je teško razlučiti interese profesora od interesa studenata tako da je zahtjev za besplatnim obrazovanjem jedan od naših osnovnih zahtjeva, uvijek bio i uvijek će biti!

Možete li nam sada reći koje su vaše glavne primjedbe na ova tri zakona i koje alternative vi kao Akademska solidarnost zagovarate?

DĆ: Sva tri zakona su toliko loše sastavljena da su nekonzistentni jedan s drugim, kao da autori zakona nisu imali neka početna načela iz kojih bi onda gradili zakone na koherentan način. Međutim, najveći problem s ovim zakonima je to što oni otvaraju vrata komercijalizaciji, tržištu. Eksplicitno se govori da će dekani, ravnatelji instituta i rektori biti poput menadžera, čak možda i isključivo menadžeri jer nigdje ne piše da oni moraju biti znanstveni djelatnici. Studenti su na ovo upozoravali još prije dvije godine i ironično je da su novi nacrti zakona pušteni u javnost točno dvije godine nakon početka prve blokade. Nije jasno kada će zakoni krenuti u proceduru, ali ako krenu u daljnju proceduru mi ćemo na to definitivno reagirati. Na više načina!

IR: S jedne je strane bio problem u proceduri, a s druge u sadržaju. Procedura je bila nedemokratska, bez ikakvog dijaloga s akademskom zajednicom. Nedavno je na portalu H-alter izašao intervju s članom Nacionalnog vijeća za znanost koji je dao ostavku, između ostalog i zbog toga što se čak i to vijeće kao nekakva službena struktura propisana zakonom potpuno ignoriralo pri izradi nacrta zakona. Dakle, to se sve u početku odigravalo u nekakvom uskom krugu ministrovih pajdaša. Nakon toga je proglašena nekakva suluda javna rasprava od desetak dana, što predstavlja kršenje propisa o donošenju zakona od općeg interesa. Poruka te javne rasprave je bila jasna: zakoni su nepopravljivi i od njih treba odustati. Međutim ministarstvo je nakon toga jednostavno proglasilo kraj prvog kruga javne rasprave i reklo da sada idemo te zakone popravljati. Ali ne možeš popraviti nepopravljivo. Samo popravljanje se također odvijalo na netransparentan način tako da je ministar osnovao nekakva prosudbena povjerenstva u koja je on sam postavljao članove koji su njemu po volji. I to po principu da je bilo jasno da oni nisu demokratski izabrani predstavnici institucija sa kojih dolaze, već ljudi upitnog legitimiteta bez pretjerane moći. Zapravo neki polu-promatrači sa savjetodavnim funkcijama. U početku je u njihovom radu sudjelovao i rektor zagrebačkog sveučilišta koji se povukao kada je shvatio kako cijela stvar funkcionira. Međutim, ono što je nas najviše pogodilo i što je jedan od razloga za osnivanje sindikata Akademska solidarnost je činjenica da je u svemu tome zdušno sudjelovao i sindikat. To jest vrhuška sindikata, treba razlikovati bazu sindikata od vrhuške.

O kojem se točno sindikatu radi?

IR: O Nezavisnom sindikatu znanosti i visokog obrazovanja, tzv. Ribićevom sindikatu. Mislim, kako se Ribić postavlja, to stvarno ispada Ribićev sindikat. Diskusija na Filozofskom fakultetu na kojoj su prisustvovali mnogi naši članovi, u to vrijeme još uvijek članovi njegovog sindikata, pretvorila se u njegov monolog u kojem je on nama onako očinski s visoka govorio da mi ništa ne razumijemo, pokušavao nas pridobiti tvrdnjama da je on „ljeviji“ od nas i sl. Zapravo je cijelo vrijeme bacao nekakve populističke floskule koje nas uopće nisu interesirale. Nas je interesiralo samo to da uvjerimo njega da ne može sudjelovati u nečemu protiv čega se buni velika većina članova njegovog sindikata, preko čega je on jednostavno prešao i nastavio nas tapšati po leđima.

DĆ: Da se vratimo malo na ova prosudbena povjerenstva. Ta povjerenstva ne postoje nigdje u zakonu, ona su presedan. Zbog toga ih mi zovemo „takozvana prosudbena povjerenstva“. Nikada se u hrvatskoj povijesti nije dogodilo da se neki zakon odbaci u javnoj raspravi i da se onda ide prosuđivati zbog čega je odbačen kako bi se neke dijelove izmijenilo. Ako je odbačen, onda je odbačen. Isto tako, nikada nije jasno rečeno što točno nije u redu s trenutnim sustavom i trenutnim zakonom da bi nam sada trebao novi. Ne mogu nam čak niti reći da se radi o usklađivanju s Europskom unijom pošto je poglavlje o obrazovanju već zatvoreno. Tako da se ovdje očito radi o privatnim interesima samog ministra i o interesima vlasti. U radu povjerenstava su uz nelegitimne predstavnike sindikata i profesora navodno sudjelovali i studenti. Međutim, studentici sa zadarskog sveučilišta koja je sudjelovala u njihovom radu, odavno je istekao mandat. Studentski zbor je priča za sebe, poništavani su izbori zbog različitih nepravilnosti i zbog toga nije konstituiran novi SZ pa je dotična studentica sudjelovala kao v.d. Znači, kada bismo mi išli istraživati jednog po jednog članove tih povjerenstava, vjerojatno bismo zaključili da nitko od njih nema legitimitet da o tim stvarima odlučuje.

IR: U početku je to bilo potpuno ludo. To je išlo dotle da se na prvim nacrtima zakona nalazio vodeni žig, u stilu strogo povjerljivo, kao da se radi o stvarima kojima se bave tajne službe a ne o stvarima od javnog interesa. Mislim, ako se nema povjerenja u akademsku zajednicu i u njezinu sposobnost da kroz demokratsku raspravu iznjedri kvalitetna rješenja, onda k vragu sve, onda čemu akademska zajednica? Zanimljivo je i to da se u novim nacrtima zakona, Zakon o znanosti zove Zakon o znanstvenoj djelatnosti što odlično ilustrira jednu od točaka na koju se, na dobro posjećenoj tribini „O duhu zakona“ u SC-u, osvrnuo akademik Despot, a to je da su zakoni promijenjeni uglavnom na terminološkoj razini. Recimo ne spominje se više sustav piramide, ali svi članci u daljnjem tekstu zakona idu u smjeru nemilosrdnog kresanja sigurnosti zaposlenja i lakšeg otpuštanja znanstvenih djelatnika na tržište rada kako bi privatni kapital lakše modelirao ne samo tzv. output znanstvene djelatnosti, već i kako bi njima mogao što lakše baratati kao radnom snagom i iz njih izvlačiti profit. Zanimljivo je i to da u tim novim nacrtima zakona postoje i nekakve preambule – isto takozvane – koje su zapravo simulacija analize trenutnog stanja i projekcija za budućnost, što je nešto što bi svaki ovako važan zakon zapravo trebao podrazumijevati. Međutim svakome tko baci makar i površan pogled na te tekstove je jasno da se tu zaista radi samo o simulaciji analize i da je to sve potpuno suludo i logički kontradiktorno. I dalje ne postoji nikakva jasna strategija razvoja znanstvene djelatnosti koja bi poslužila kao temelj na kojem bi se gradili zakoni. Sve to naravno ne priječi trenutnog ministra da u svojim medijskim istupima tvrdi kako novi zakoni sprečavaju komercijalizaciju. Ali kada čovjek krene čitati čime on to točno sprečava komercijalizaciju vidi da se u svakoj drugoj rečenici poziva na tržište i to na globalno tržište što je posebno važno naglasiti. Pri tome se poziva na dokumente OECD-a i sl., što će reći na vanjske arbitre dokazano neoliberalne orijentacije. Dakle, nema zdrave osnove. Ono što je inicijativa Akademska solidarnost pokušala napraviti, i u tome djelomično uspjela, je početi graditi platformu za tu opću strategiju, pokazati da je moguće raditi drugačije. Istina je da u tome nismo odmakli pretjerano daleko jer smo zauzeti konkretnom borbom protiv ovih zakona čije bi donošenje imalo katastrofalne posljedice, kao i svojim regularnim poslovima, ali ipak smo postigli nešto bitno a to je konsenzus oko četiri temeljna načela od kojih bi sve trebalo kretati.

Možete li nabrojati ta načela?

IR: Prvo, znanost i obrazovanje moraju djelovati u interesu čitavog društva, a ne privatnog kapitala. Drugo, znanost mora biti utemeljena na suradnji, a ne natjecanju. Treće, visoko obrazovanje mora biti potpuno javno financirano i svima dostupno. I četvrto, ustroj akademske zajednice mora biti potpuno transparentan što treba osigurati demokratskim nadzorom odozdo a ne uplitanjem politike u sveučilišnu autonomiju. Ta su načela prvi put izglasana na prije spomenutoj tribini „O duhu zakona“ u SC-u, a od tada su više puta izravno ili neizravno potvrđena na sastancima Inicijative kao nešto oko čega se svi slažemo i što mislimo da je u duhu same znanstvene djelatnosti. Svako od ta četiri načela se izravno krši ovim zakonima, što god ministar pričao po medijima.

DĆ: Ja bih dodala još jednu stvar u vezi ovih zakona, a to je da su zakoni, riječima jedne od žena koja podržava zakone, potpuno ogoljeni. To znači da su ovi zakoni zapravo samo kostur koji će se onda nadopunjavati pravilnicima različitih institucija. Tako npr., ako ovi zakoni prođu, Filozofski fakultet neće imati nikakvih zakonskih prepreka da uvede recimo sustav piramide koji je izbačen iz samog teksta zakona jer je na njega bilo najviše primjedbi. Isto tako se na više mjesta ističe izvrsnost bez da su navedeni kriteriji za određivanje izvrsnosti. Netko može biti izvrstan u tržišnom poslovanju ali grozan znanstvenik, dok s druge strane netko može biti totalni antitalent za birokraciju ali izvrstan znanstvenik. Znači izvrsnost sama po sebi ne znači apsolutno ništa. Još jedna vrlo bitna stvar u vezi ovih zakona je i pitanje autonomije sveučilišta. Naime, ovim zakonima se stvaraju tijela od desetak članova koja nadgledaju rad sveučilišta. Npr. za sveučilište predlažu vijeće od devet članova od kojih četiri imenuje vlada, što znači da je vrlo izvjestan scenarij u kojem politika ima natpolovičnu većinu u tom tijelu i donosi sve odluke. U isto vrijeme, prema prijedlozima novih zakona niti jedno znanstveno istraživanje neće se moći provesti bez odobrenja tog najvišeg tijela. Osim ovog tijela, predviđeno je formiranje još jednog tijela u kojem će sjediti dva nadležna ministra, ministar znanosti, obrazovanja i športa i ministar - gospodarstva! Time se dakle eksplicitno govori da bi gospodarstvo trebalo direktno utjecati na našu znanost.

IR: U tom kontekstu je bitno spomenuti i novi sistem financiranja sveučilišta putem programskih ugovora koji će se potpisivati na tri godine. E sad, da bi se ti ugovori potpisali vodit će se pregovori u kojima će sudjelovati rektor kao lider sveučilišta i izravno sam ministar. Dakle, bez sudjelovanja ikakvih demokratski izabranih tijela poput vijeća fakulteta, senata i sl., već se pregovori vode zapravo između dvaju menadžera. U slučaju da se oni ne dogovore u određenom roku, ministarstvo jednostavno smanjuje budžet za iduću godinu u određenom postotku i može tako nastaviti smanjivati sve dok u potpunosti ne onemogući djelovanje sveučilišta. Intencija takvog sustava financiranja je jasna. Ministarstvo na taj način može financijskim pritiskom uvjetovati i restrukturiranje sveučilišta, i upisnine i sve ostalo što tobože prepušta autonomiji sveučilišta. Zanimljivo je da ovim zakonima nisu zagarantirana čak ni sredstva za provedbu reformi koje zakoni predviđaju, a kamo li sredstva za financiranje rada sveučilišta.

DĆ: Sve ovo što je kolega spomenuo direktno će utjecati i na samu znanstvenu djelatnost, i to na način da će se prvo birati što će se uopće istraživati, a onda će se još birati i rezultati istraživanja. Profesor Neven Jovanović je na toj prvoj tribini, „Što se to mene tiče?“, pričao između ostalog i o takozvanoj „veseloj znanosti“, odnosno pojavi na mnogim sveučilištima u inozemstvu da se objavljuju samo oni rezultati istraživanja koji su u skladu s interesima naručitelja i financijera tih istraživanja. Sve ovo je naravno izrazito pogubno za znanstvenu djelatnost koja zahtjeva autonomiju na svim razinama, od samog znanstvenika do sveučilišta.

Dakle cilj vaše Inicijative je stopiranje ovih zakona i očuvanje statusa quo dok vi kao inicijativa ne smislite nekakvu alternativu?

IR: Inicijativa ili neko drugi. Nitko ne govori da je trenutno stanje u znanosti bajno, to nitko ne želi reći niti je ikada pokušao reći. Ono na što mi želimo ukazati je to da ovakve promjene vode ka pogoršanju trenutnog stanja, te da je čitav ovaj način donošenja zakona ne samo sadržajno, već i proceduralno katastrofalan. Dakle treba mijenjati stvari, ali ne ovako i na ovaj način.

DĆ: Bitno je istaknuti da manjak demokracije i transparentnosti nisu problem samo ovih prijedloga zakona, već i trenutnog sustava u kojem većina različitih vijeća i sličnih tijela uopće nisu demokratična. Pola tih vijeća izgleda tako da predsjednik vijeća, koji je ujedno i ravnatelj instituta ili dekan, pročita dnevni red, glasanje je čista formalnost, rasprave su vrlo kratke ili ih uopće nema, zapisnici sastanaka koji traju po tri sata imaju karticu teksta i sl. Dakle situacija ni sada nije bajna, ali umjesto da se novim prijedlozima zakona pokuša potaknuti ljude na aktivnije sudjelovanje u donošenju odluka, oni idu u smjeru davanja još više autoriteta ljudima koji ga već sada imaju previše. Puno toga treba mijenjati, ali ne na ovaj način i ne bez sudjelovanja akademske zajednice.

Osim inicijative Akademska solidarnost nedavno je osnovan i sindikat pod istim nazivom koji funkcionira po principu direktne demokracije. Možete li nam reći nešto više o samom sindikatu? Tko se sve može učlaniti, kako izgleda proces učlanjivanja, kako se donose odluke i sl.?

IR: Inicijativa Akademska solidarnost je, za razliku od sindikata, neformalna organizacija. Premda je iluzorno očekivati odsustvo bilo kakvog oblika hijerarhije u nekoj zajednici koliko god ona neformalna bila, a prema nekim autorima su upravo takve zajednice najosjetljivije na formiranje neslužbenih autoriteta zbog nedostatka bilo kakve jasno propisane procedure, smatram da su u našoj inicijativi takve stvari manje više uspješno riješene. Sastanci Inicijative su bili otvoreni apsolutno svima. Na njima su sudjelovali ljudi iz najrazličitijih područja znanosti, s različitih institucija, različitih titula itd. Uvijek se poticala otvorena diskusija, o ključnim stvarima se uvijek glasalo. Uredno su se vodili zapisnici. Moderatori i zapisničari su se, koliko je to bilo moguće, izmjenjivali. Kada kažem koliko je to bilo moguće mislim na još uvijek nisku razinu svijesti kod mnogih ljudi o tome koliko je važno da se ljudi na tim funkcijama rotiraju, a ne da se linijom manjeg otpora prepušta uvijek istim ljudima da obavljaju neke funkcije. Dakle ovo se sve odnosi na taj neformalni dio povijesti Inicijative. Sam sindikat je osnovan na osnivačkoj skupštini održanoj 9. ožujka kada je donesen i statut, a 30. ožujka smo registrirani. Statut je upravo ta procedura koja garantira pridržavanje principa direktne demokracije i onemogućava nastajanje neformalnih autoriteta koji bi imali proceduralnu moć. Prema statutu članovi sindikata mogu biti sve punoljetne osobe koje se interesiraju za područje znanosti i visokog obrazovanja.

DĆ: Važno je i da je ovo je prvi sindikat čiji članovi ne moraju biti zaposleni. Odluka o učlanjivanju nezaposlenih osoba donesena je na jednom od sastanaka koji su prethodili osnivanju sindikata, gdje je zaključeno da treba zaštititi i ljude koji su žrtve mobbinga. Postoje primjeri znanstvenika koji su imali sve uvjete za rad i napredovanje ali su dobili otkaz i sada više ne uživaju zaštitu sindikata jer nisu zaposleni. Kako bismo tome doskočili odlučili smo učlanjivati i nezaposlene. Osim nezaposlenih član našeg sindikata može biti bilo tko tko ima veze s akademskom sredinom; bio on student, zaposlenik sveučilišta, portir, nezaposleni profesor hrvatskog jezika… Svatko kome treba zaštita. To predstavlja bitnu inovaciju kojom su neki ljudi oduševljeni, dok su drugi skeptični, ali moje osobno mišljenje je da će se to s vremenom pokazati kao jako dobar potez.

IR: Ono što je posebno važno jest to da svi članovi ravnopravno sudjeluju u odlučivanju. Odluke sindikata se mogu donositi isključivo na skupštini, a vršioci svih funkcija koje propisuje Zakon o radu nalaze se pod imperativnim mandatom, što znači da imaju dužnost provoditi odluke skupštine. Sindikat ima samo dva tijela, skupštinu i savjet. Savjet je tu samo da bi se zadovoljila forma koju propisuje zakon, a to je da između skupština mora postojati nekakvo ovlašteno tijelo. Međutim, i to tijelo se nalazi pod imperativnim mandatom, te su njegovi sastanci otvoreni za sve i svi prisutni na sastanku su potpuno ravnopravni izabranim članovima savjeta. Isto tako je bitno spomenuti da je maksimalno trajanje svih mandata ograničeno na godinu dana. Sve je to propisano trenutno važećim statutom. Ali mi se ne zaustavljamo samo na tome i trenutno se radi na amandmanima na statut od kojih se možda najvažniji odnosi na formiranje podružnica. Lokalnost je po nama ključna za uspješnu direktnu demokraciju. To znači da podružnice, bilo na razini pojedinih sveučilišta, institucija ili znanstvenih titula, imaju potpunu autonomiju u donošenju odluka bez postojanja centrale koja bi izdavala direktive. Dakle sljedeći korak je institucionalizacija podružnica.

DĆ: Bitno je istaknuti da u svim sveučilišnim gradovima osim Osijeka, iako i tamo imamo simpatizera i potpisnika inicijative, postoje aktivne grupe. Posebno je aktivno članstvo u Splitu gdje održavaju redovite sastanke, imaju posebnu mailing listu i stalan priljev novih članova. Jednom kada se riješi pitanje podružnica vjerojatno će postojati nekakva nadregionalna struktura za razmjenu mišljenja ili donošenja odluka, ali još uvijek nije jasno kako će to točno izgledati zbog pitanja delegata i sl.

IR: Vjerojatno će postojati neki oblik federacije, ali osnova djelovanja će biti zapravo lokalna. To nam je težnja.

Kakve su bile reakcije sindikalnih središnjica na osnivanje vašeg sindikata? Doživljavaju li vas kao konkurenciju na radnim mjestima? Boje li se gubitka članova?

IR: Koliko je meni poznato nismo dobili nikakvu službenu reakciju, niti bih koristio riječ konkurencija da opišem naš odnos. U svakom slučaju mi se ne slažemo sa načinom na koji je NSZVO odrađivao posao po ovom pitanju. To je sigurno i tu nemamo što skrivati. Mi smo osim toga u jednom proglasu pozvali cijeli vrh NSZVO-a da podnese ostavku. S druge strane se ni ne želimo pretjerano zamarati time što oni misle. Mi radimo pravu stvar, radimo to najbolje što možemo, i radit ćemo i dalje.

DĆ: Osim toga bitno je razjasniti i to da se nitko ne mora iščlaniti iz NSZVO-a da bi mogao postati član Akademske solidarnosti. Sindikati su udruge i može se biti u isto vrijeme u deset udruga ako se želi. Međutim, čisto sumnjam da će ljudi to vidjeti na taj način i djelovati u dva sindikata. Mi u početku niti nismo željeli postaviti stvar na način „ili mi ili oni“ baš kako bismo privukli što više ljudi, ali ako netko želi napustiti NSZVO, može. Dosta ga je ljudi ipak napustilo jer nisu bili zadovoljni djelovanjem vrhuške koja nije obraćala pozornost na stavove baze. Svi su ti ljudi sada dobili alternativu.

Koliko ste upoznati s prijedlogom Zakona o reprezentativnosti sindikata? Prema njemu bi sindikalna centrala morala imati barem 50.000 članova da bi sindikat mogao npr. sklapati kolektivne ugovore i sl. Kako na taj prijedlog gledate iz perspektive sindikata koji još uvijek nema 50.000 članova? Smatrate li to isto nekom frontom na koju biste trebali obratiti pozornost? Vidite li u tome pokušaj ograničavanja slobodnog organiziranja ljudi, neovisno od postojeće garniture?

DĆ: Meni se cijela ta stvar čini pomalo apsurdnom jer ne vidim zbog čega sindikat od 500 ljudi, koji svi zajedno slažu kolektivni ugovor, ne bi mogao biti efikasniji od sindikata koji broji 50.000 članova od kojih velika većina nema pojma što će u kolektivnom ugovoru pisati. Masovnost kao kriterij ne znači ništa ako velika većina članova ni na koji način ne utječe na rad sindikata.

IR: Moram priznati da nisam upoznat sa detaljima oko tog prijedloga tako da o njemu mogu samo načelno govoriti. Meni ta stvar miriši na petrifikaciju postojećeg stanja. Određeni ljudi su na pozicijama, uhljebljeni bilo materijalno, bilo da im laska moć i svjesno ili nesvjesno se pokušavaju na njima održati, tj. blokirati bilo kakvu promjenu. U svakom slučaju to je definitivno jedna od stvari na koje ćemo morati obratiti pozornost u budućnosti. Što se tiče samih sindikalnih središnjica, bilo je indikativno promatrati razvoj ovih tzv. Facebook prosvjeda, u kojima je Inicijativa također sudjelovala, a gdje je jedan od punktova na kojima se prosvjedna kolona redovito zaustavljala i izražavala negodovanje bila upravo sindikalna središnjica u Šubićevoj. Isto je zanimljiv slučaj i odgoda proslave Prvog maja zbog toga što su sindikalni lideri navodno zadovoljni s postojećim socijalnim dijalogom. Pazite, oni to izgovaraju u situaciji rekordne nezaposlenosti, katastrofalnog stanja u gospodarstvu, konstantnih prijetnji novim udarima na radnička prava, stalnog ispipavanja mogućnosti privatizacije preostalih javnih dobara i sl.

DĆ: Da se vratimo malo na ovu priču o masovnosti kao garanciji efikasnosti sindikata. Ne smijemo zaboraviti ni nedavno prikupljanje potpisa za referendum gdje su sindikati prikupili preko 700.000 potpisa koje su jednostavno odložili na stranu, kao da se ništa nije dogodilo. Kao da ti potpisi ne izražavaju želju ljudi da se nešto napravi! I onda u trenutku kada su imali golemu masu ljudi iza sebe i kada su od vlade mogli tražiti zaista bilo što, i ovi bi im to morali dati, oni su jednostavno pristali na pacifikaciju na još godinu dana. Što su oni time dobili ne znam, ali ovih 700.000 ljudi nije dobilo ništa.

Sindikat Akademska solidarnost je najavio štrajk ukoliko ovi prijedlozi zakona krenu u daljnju proceduru. Možete li nam reći nešto više o tome?

IR: Radnička prava se, kao uostalom i sva druga prava, uvijek ostvaruju borbom. Ta borba ne mora nužno biti, i poželjno je da ne bude nasilna. Potpuno je iluzorno da će se kroz nekakav dijalog pun poštovanja prema onima iznad sebe ostvariti išta bitno, jer su ti ljudi strukturalno onemogućeni da uopće razumiju svog sugovornika. Takve se stvari rješavaju borbom! Mi smo ovakvim postupcima MZOŠ-a jednostavno dovedeni u situaciju da nam ne preostaje ništa drugo nego borba, čiji je jedan vid i štrajk koji smo najavili još 19. siječnja, dakle prije nego što je sami sindikat uopće osnovan.

DĆ: Poštovanje je dvosmjeran odnos. Ne vidim zbog čega bismo mi iz baze trebali iskazivati poštovanje prema vlasti kada je ona u bezbroj navrta pokazala da ne poštuje nikoga od nas potpisnika Inicijative. Čak se ide toliko daleko da se u potpunosti ignoriraju i analize profesora s pravnih fakulteta koje su pokazale da su ovi zakoni protuustavni. Mislim, ako oni nisu autoritet na tom području, onda ne znam tko jest.

Koji je postupak učlanjivanja u vaš sindikat? Kako stupiti u kontakt s vama?

DĆ: Na našoj web stranici akadsolid.com moguće je pronaći pristupnicu. Prije popunjavanja pristupnice važno je pažljivo pročitati statut sindikata koji se nalazi na istoj stranici. Slaganje sa statutom je vrlo bitna stvar pri učlanjenju u naš sindikat zbog njegovog specifičnog direktnodemokratskog načina funkcioniranja. Ljudi moraju shvatiti da se tu ne radi o nekakvoj hijerarhijskoj strukturi u kojoj pet ljudi odlučuje a oni ne moraju raditi ništa, već su svi pozvani da sudjeluju u njegovom radu. Nakon što se pročita statut, popunjenu pristupnicu treba poslati na adresu Filozofskog fakulteta u Zagrebu na kojoj je sindikat registriran, i to je to. Ne postoji nekakav posebni mehanizam selekcije članova.

Za kraj nam još recite, smatrate li da vam vaša direktnodemokratska struktura omogućava veću efikasnost u odnosu na klasične birokratske sindikate i smatrate li da bi se taj model radničkog organiziranja trebao širiti i na ostale industrijske grane?

IR: Ja osobno sam potpuno uvjeren u to. Znanost je po meni posebno podatna za tako nešto, iz već spomenutih razloga, ali mislim da je to načelo prema kojem bi i ostatak društva trebao krenuti. Osim toga, mislim da se različiti oblici direktne demokracije ostvaruju u svakodnevnom životu, samo ih tako ne nazivamo i kao takve ne prepoznajemo. Čitava ta priča o konkurenciji i vječitoj borbi svih protiv sviju kao izvoru svakog napretka, ne samo da je loša u moralnom smislu, već je i neistinita. Stvari jednostavno tako ne funkcioniraju. Uz sve te priče o slobodnom tržištu kao nekakvoj nevidljivoj ruci koja uspješno rješava sve probleme gospodarstva, činjenica je da slobodno tržište ne postoji niti je ikada postojalo.

DĆ: Veliki problem kod nas, što se tiče direktne demokracije, je i to što ju puno ljudi povezuje sa samoupravljanjem iz bivšeg sistema kao nečim navodno lošim. Međutim, ti bi se ljudi trebali zapitati da li im je stvarno bilo toliko loše u vrijeme samoupravljanja i je li industrija bolje funkcionirala tada ili danas. Osim toga, direktna demokracija u znatnoj mjeri sprječava korupciju zbog postojanja nadzora odozdo. Što je više ljudi upućeno u događanja, to je manje prostora za muljanje.

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